Warning regarding Turtle Innovations

[aznrevlazn]

Turtle Innovation created by Robert Long is well known for there bad business ethics. It seemed lately that his scamming and lying to those on PBN and customers out of PBN has come to a climax. He is now BOS (Banned on Site) on PBNation and the discussion of his business has now become much like the discussion of Virtue Products on PBNation.

He has even filed a patent to patent the Half Block design calling it the Turtle Cocker or Turtle conversion.Do you know what this means? It menas Robert will be able to stop and hault to all businesses offering half-block conversion. He has threated even a mod (Joshgrrr) to shut down his business when his patent is in full effect.

Even more recently Rob has been offering petty products such as IVG's and Pump Arms to members of PBN to up his already ground pounded business by getting good feedback for those who have teh free items.

This is just an informative warning and caution, DO NOT DEAL WITH ROBERT LONG OF TURTLE INNOVATION OR WITH HIS TEAM "TREMOR".

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=29470504&posted=1#post29470504

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1919663

[drg]

Okay I'm vetoing the lock and sticky on this thread because frankly, open discussion is the cornerstone of this board and a post like this should neither be held above others nor made undiscussable. I am, however, locking the copy of this thread in the site news area, please don't crosspost in the future.

Rules still apply, though, as far as flaming, etc. so if you have a rejoinder, make a clear case.

[Snowman]

Sorry... Mr. Long did bring up a good point, he has nothing to do with Team Tremor they are around for a just cause. I stickied and locked this post originally just to raise awareness and prevent flaming, sorry for any feelings I may have harmed.

[rlong]

Turtle Innovation created by Robert Long is well known for there bad business ethics. It seemed lately that his scamming and lying to those on PBN and customers out of PBN has come to a climax. He is now BOS (Banned on Site) on PBNation and the discussion of his business has now become much like the discussion of Virtue Products on PBNation.

He has even filed a patent to patent the Half Block design calling it the Turtle Cocker or Turtle conversion.Do you know what this means? It menas Robert will be able to stop and hault to all businesses offering half-block conversion. He has threated even a mod (Joshgrrr) to shut down his business when his patent is in full effect.

Even more recently Rob has been offering petty products such as IVG's and Pump Arms to members of PBN to up his already ground pounded business by getting good feedback for those who have teh free items.

This is just an informative warning and caution, DO NOT DEAL WITH ROBERT LONG OF TURTLE INNOVATION OR WITH HIS TEAM "TREMOR".

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=29470504&posted=1#post29470504

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1919663

On the PBN I have talked with Ed one of the founders on the site and there will be a review in 6 months of all that has happened and things to come.  That is all I have to say about that.

As for filing a patent on the Half Block design and or Conversion.  There was a patent filed for the Turtle Valve and also a revision made to add the block bolt/design/pin design. It was not to call Half Blocks, Turtle Cockers or Conversions.  Which if anyone knows that Race uses a different design.  The only person I have talked to about stopping was Josh.  That is all.  And we can't make anyone stop anything.  

As for free parts.  People were looking for some parts that they couldn't find and I offered to give them some.  Not asking for any feedback from anyone.  I have offered free parts to many people.  I still do services for people below cost just because I am not in it for the money.  I am in it for the love of the Marker and the Sport.  If that is a crime then I am at fault.

Now when it comes to Team Tremor.  They had tryouts and I went and tried out for the team.  They are playing for a good cause to bring awareness to Parkinson's disease through Paintball.  They are a great team and play for a great cause.  To put them down and say that is being very closed minded and down right nasty.  If you ever talked to Chris the Co-captian you would be amazed at how nice of a person he is and he would give the shirt off his back for you.  The man is a saint sent down to help others see that you can overcome anything with family, friends and the will never to give up.  If people want to say things about me that is fine but to say things about him and the team is just wrong and the administrators should step in and do something about that or edit it.  

Now Turtle Innovation,  Not going to make excuses for things that have happened, Have been late on some orders, working with the people that there orders are late.  Haven't responded to every e-mail due to me and also server problems.  Was also banned from the shop for some time due to the problems on PBN.  Issues were addressed by Co-owners and I can't make up for lost time and issues and won't make lies or excuses about them.  Will say sorry to the members and paintball players.  We have on record of 400+ shipments that have gone out and confirmed delievery packages.  Will let administrators that wants to look over them the ability to.  We will keep all names blacked out for sercuity purposes.  We have nothing to hide.  Also on PBN people were making jokes about coming to my home and calling me out before I got up in the morning.  I took that very personal and my childers and wife would be in harms way.  I know anyone that has childern of there own would protect them, as I would expect them to.  Please if there is a problem anything can be settled with out haveing to make comments like that.  Even if it is a joke that is out of line.  I do thank the Administrators and Mods for looking out for the members of the forums They do a great job and it isn't easy to having to deal with all that.  But there is a fine line between calling some one a scammer and a fraud, and a business that is just slow and has problems with communication.  Thank you and god be with you.

[JoshGrrrr]

Ed isn't a founder, he's the owner.  He's a cool guy.   I don't think he will ever allow you back on PBN.  You have been perm banned 3-4 times now for shady actions.  Remember hyping your own products under a different screenname?  You were released from those perm bans because you e-mailed staff and begged and pleaded for "one more chance".  I think you have used up all of your last chances.  Now, I may be wrong.  I can't say what Ed will do.  But, knowing how much he looks down on shady people and shady business ethics, I don't think you will ever be allowed back.

Having a few late orders doesn't make you a scammer and a fraud.  What makes it fraud is when you give fake tracking numbers, when you pretend you are someone else, and when you flat out lie so that people will feel safe sending you their guns and money.  There have been quite a few people who have been given fake tracking numbers only to stall them to the point that they can't get their money back via paypal due to the 45 day rule.  There are two people who recently complained about getting 2 or 3 fake tracking numbers.   You have also promised them both on several occasions that their items have shipped when they hadn't.  You keep blaming the fact that you don't reply to e-mail on your server, when you replied to my emails and e-mailed me from the same e-mail address people were trying to contact you on.  You e-mailed me pretending to be the "new owner".  The "new owner" complained about not being able to post on PBN because of your IP ban, when he was supposedly posting from his own home.  That is not possible.  The only way your IP ban could effect him is if he was posting from YOUR home.  In the process of trying to "fix" this you just keep telling more and more lies.  You go on about your new shop that doesn't exist.  You go on about all of your employees that don't exist.  You go on about your new owner that doesn't exist.  You keep saying that you have 400+ orders that have went out.  THAT DOESN'T MATTER.  The ones that didn't are what matter.  If you are in it for the sport, why did you raise hell at me for making a guide for people to do their own conversions?  You've also bragged to me about all of the money you will be making in the future.  To sit here now and say you aren't in it for the money is somewhat hypocritical.  You've threatened to sue me with your patent numerous times.  I've asked for the patent number numerous times as well and have still never seen it.  You say you won't make excuses for your actions, then that is exactly what you do.

I'm not going to get into a big argument with you.  You will just tell lies on top of lies to try to make yourself look better.  You have been caught in numerous lies.  Every time you e-mail me or post you tell even more lies to try to cover up the old ones.  If anyone doubts that this man has lied to his customers and lied to the staff on PBN just go to PBN and do a search on his name.  That should tell you all you need to know.  People also need to remember that the people calling you a scammer and fraud have nothing to gain from saying those things, you have a lot to gain by lying to clear your name.

BTW, just another little lie.  You told me you WERE part of Team Tremor and lost that position due to you being banned from PBN.  Now you say you only tried out.

[rlong]

Not going to go in here and see who can have a I said you said match.  The Tracking numbers were not fake.  I guess Paypal gives out fake tracking numbers.  That is all I will say on that.

 I tried out for Team Tremors.  The topic was they are my team.  No You will see me there with them I am on the Practice Squad.  Was brought back but demoted to the practice squad.

Yes Talked to Ed and what we talked about you will never know.  But will say that a BOS is not what he has in mind.  He doesn't feel that anyone should be band for life.  All I will say on that.  

As for the server,  we changed server and all e-mails would come in and go into a spam filter unless I sent an e-mail to the person which I did to you so then they would be ok and come in.  You think you know everything.  But I am not going to turn thing into a useless post.  I said my piece above and will leave it at that.  Have a great Life JoshGrrrr

One last thing might want to do some re-search on the Internet Slander/Libel laws.

[JoshGrrrr]

Paypal doesn't give out fake tracking numbers.  But you can easily click "print shipping label" and have tracking number sent to the buyer without ever having sent a package.   That is what you have done on several occasions.  When you have numerous different people saying "I got two or three different tracking numbers but never received a package", I think it is safe to say that there is a some deception going on.  Those tracking numbers show up as invalid because a package was never shipped therefore it never went into the system.  

You are right, I have no clue what you and Ed discussed.  But I have a good idea as to how he feels about shady characters like yourself.  See how long Virtue has been BOS'd?  I'm not trying to say what he will do.  I'm just telling you what I think will happen.  I don't see you being allowed back on PBN.

I know all I need to know about slander and libel.   We went over it in great detail in my Legal and Social Environment of Business classes as well in my Business Ethics classes.  You could benefit from both of those classes.  You threaten everyone who talks about you with a slander/libel lawsuit.  What you need to understand is that people have reason to say the things they are saying.  The only time you have a claim is when a person is just flat-out making stuff up out of the blue just to make you look bad.  No one is doing that.  Everything that has been said about you has come directly from your own words and actions.

[Peerless]

Any word on my body? You still haven't really given me an answer.

[JoshGrrrr]

Perfect timing.  How many tracking numbers have you been given Peerless?  Have you received a package yet?  Will rlong refund your money?

[Peerless]

I have been given one tracking number, (4209
2122 9101 1501 3471 1690 0774 30) Still have not recieved a package and I am trying to get a body instead of money but I have asked in the past and was deterred.  It was a Christmas present for my bro and I just want to build it for him so we can play in an upcoming tournament. Just send it man.

[drg]

Perfect timing.  How many tracking numbers have you been given Peerless?  Have you received a package yet?  Will rlong refund your money?

Let rlong reply please, and let his and peerless' answers speak for themselves. Piling on with questions like these is not within what I am going to allow in this discussion.

Bear in mind, I am leaving this thread open for one reason -- to allow the public to be informed of the state of the halfblock industry and any of the companies in it. That is the goal of this forum, and has been from day 1.

To that end, it is not necessary, nor will I allow, ad infinitum arguments. It is not an advocacy forum and it is not a place to hash out differences and argue ethics. Make your point, present your evidence and move on. This applies to both sides.

If you want to continuously argue, take it to another venue.

[Dees_Troy]

I may be stepping past my bounds, but I have to back up Josh on this one.  I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that rlong and his company are complete frauds, but my experience with Turtle backs Josh's stories about tracking numbers being given out without a package actually being shipped.  My tracking number came via email roughly 2 weeks before I finally filed a Paypal dispute at 44 days, one day shy of the 45 day deadline.  If you check the status of one of these tracking numbers, it will say something along the lines of the USPS has been electronically notified to expect your package.  The electronic notification just means that someone requested that Paypal print a shipping label.

At this point, I figured all was well, but after not receiving my Priority Mail package after a week and well past the usual 2-3 days that USPS quotes, I contacted Turtle.  I received a response saying that they had had a problem with the new bodies, but that it was fixed and that I should receive it in few days.

Let me tell you, if you are lucky enough to file a dispute within the deadline, you'll get personal service and almost no more run-around.  rlong himself called me to plead with me because my dispute meant 2 things.  1) The $300 payment had been pulled from his account and placed on hold until the dispute was resolved.  2) He and his company could not receive any more Paypal payments while the dispute was open.

While I can't prove this for sure, I was told at the time of the dispute that the item had already shipped.  Now, bear in mind that this was on a Tuesday the week before Memorial Day.  The delivery confirmation number still said the same electronically notified message.  I told rlong that I wouldn't release the dispute until it got here.  I didn't get it until it arrived via overnight delivery on Tuesday AFTER Memorial Day meaning that my item didn't get shipped via Priority Mail on the Tuesday I was told it had and that instead it was shipped via Express Mail later.

At the same time, it's obvious that Turtle Innovations does make markers and bodies and does delivery them eventually, otherwise there wouldn't be as many examples of his work out there as there are.  You will get your order... eventually.

[JoshGrrrr]

The reason I am asking Peerless to answer these questions is because he specifically asked me how he can get his stuff from rlong.  My answer was for him to make his problems with rlong as public as possible.  Rlong has repeatedly lied to him.  He will continue to do so.  The only way I've found to get him to tell the truth is to catch him in a lie on a public forum.  Also, it seems that the only time people to whom he owes stuff get their parts/money from him is when he starts catching heat on public forums.

My intent with that post was to put rlong in a position where had to give the guy his money or his body else look like a liar.  That has worked in the past.  My goal is for the people who have been screwed to get what they have coming to them.  I've helped a few people with that already.  I can see that that conflicts with your forum's goal of simply providing information.  I apologize for that.  I can see how that could be considered using your forums in a way that was not intended.  I will stick to posting facts and let peerless and rlong sort this out amongst themselves.

Dees_Troy - Not everyone gets there stuff.  There are some people who have been waiting literally YEARS and still have not got what they paid for, or their money.  From what I understand there are also people who are still missing guns that were sent to him for conversion.

[rlong]

Thank you drg , snowman and the rest of the mod's for keeping the facts and we have been slow on some things but will get people the things that people ordered to them.

[zxcvbnm277]

I have had a past transaction with Mr. long and i purchased at the time the new delrin half block body from his internet site. He was a little late on sending it but i have had it for while now. So i do Agree that he is no fraud. I am not a made up profile either, you can check forums from about last march where i posted about mr long and his buisness. The only negitive was when i got it the innner tubing it was too small for the hammer and the MQ valve. however the next day i got the email giving the warning and that they are sending out the replacement part. I have read the posts on mr long and how my case is supposeovly "rare" but usually when theres a normal transaction theres no reason to post.