Zforce - shuld I or shuld I not.

[abun]

Hi guys,
I had a 2k2 cocker, its in a nice shape and im keeping it that way.
But recently i had fall in love with 1/2 and midblock cocker.. Im not that adventurous to get a body and send for custom milling/modding.. so im thinking to just get a readymade body kits.

So Zforce comes to mind. I have not found much info about this marker.. so hopefully you guys can give some tips.. whether its good, or not or get another body.

and probably some opinions regarding the reliability, ease of use,
issues? and so on..

thanks in advance.
-abun

[Dees_Troy]

There should be some reviews on PBReview for you to look over.  I've never used one of the ZForce bodies myself.  Most of what I've heard has been pretty good.  I have heard that the 2-piece body design does sometimes lend itself to leaking around the 2 screws that hold the 2 pieces together, but if you put a lot of teflon tape on the screws, that usually fixes the leak.

The angled valve setup on the ZForce means that you pretty much have to use their valve.  Their valve should be plenty good, but if you plan to mQ later on, it can be harder to get the mQ to fit without leaking (it has been done though).  Despite what Warped Sportz LA says, the angled valve won't really help with flow much.  The air still has to make a full 180 degree turn.

The hidden eye setup is a nice touch and allows for a cleaner installation.

[HOLLYW00D]

howdy,

the z-force is nice.  the problems with them is that

1) the "creator" knows nothing about what he created and is unwilling to help/advise.

2) the valve isn't the greatest and has a tendency not to seal well (madman rocket valve knock off).

3) internally, it's non-standard but at least uses a merlin size valve.

4) pump arm too long since now they added a stainless steel "joint" for the back block.

the post above mentions an angled valve, i haven't noticed this in my kits (have had two z-force kits now).  the top section of the body IS angled however which is nice.  i have never experienced leaks through the screws that connect the upper section to the lower.  the only leaks i've had were with the stock valve.  i've never been a fan of the "inverted" (spring on the hammer side) valves.  since there's no IVG let alone threads for one, there's only two options for valves: MQ or AKA (valve held in by set screw from the underside).  essentially you need a valve that will fit a merlin.  i got an aka merlin valve (same as viking/excalibur) fitted in my current z-force.  it took some thinking, but i got it done (with the help of a 7mm washer and a cocker spring kit).  works like a dream.  

another thing that can prove to be an issue is the eye cover.  it can be a bitch to get perfect.  i mean a SERIOUS pain to install.

other than that, this thing rocks, but the "revised" kit is not ready for prime time.  the kit i got a year or so back, didn't have the pump arm problem since it didn't have the SS joint.  Going back to issue number 1 (above), the maker for the body added the joint to the stock pump arms, nice eh? but the tool failed to make the arm shorter to compensate for the added length.  

all in all, i'd buy another kit.  if you don't like to tinker either send in your parts and WSLA will build you the cocker (free apparently) or you should look elsewhere.

[abun]

whow! thanks guys.. very detailed advice you've given us.
I'll be looking at other option aswell. A DP procut body maybe...
or racegun (where to get that!)... or lets see how.

[drg]

I'd stay away from Race guns personally ... the company is dead in the water and support is fading fast. Which is the same as Planet Eclipse cocker stuff, but I believe there is just a lot more Eblade stuff out there than Race stuff.

[abun]

Just wondering, issit possible to install a vertical ASA to the Zforce body?
I dont really like the current 15* ASA.

1 more thing, is the Merlin valve easily available around? and any pros&cons having it compared to wgp ones?

Last one, can you (Hollywood) guide me if i'm building from zforce
kits, sorry.. im pretty new to cockers.

P/s ive got another option.. a DP Procut body.

[HOLLYW00D]

the merlin valve is readily (relatively) available as it's the same valve in the viking/excalibur.  it's not interchangeable with other cockers as the merlin valve has a larger diameter and is not recessed for use with an IVG.  i'm not sure of what other cockers use this type of valve, but the majority of cockers will use the "standard" type valve.

i can advise you on the build, but i would almost highly recommend sending in your frame+parts to WSla for them to install the kit.  i'd hate to instruct you to cut down your pump arm and this and that and it turning out wrong.  it's hard to work with hand tools across the interweb.  they probably won't do the merlin valve (maybe for a fee?) as it's not a basic drop-in (although basic enough).  they will also make sure everything' is ready to rock with no leaks before shipping out (at least i would assume so...). if your stock "z-valve" works without leaking, and you are satisfied with it, there's no need to replace it really.  if mine didn't leak, i probably wouldn't have replaced it (plus, i like to tinker and "make things work" )as for the straight asa, you might want to see if WSla has any cooked up.  you MIGHT be able to find something that will alight right, but i can't guarantee it.  the asa looks to be contoured to the milling of the body.  i haven't owned any cockers besides the z-force so i don't really have anything to compare it to.

the DP kit is nice.  i almost picked up a DP before getting into my first z-force.  talked to the owner(?) for a little bit and seemed like a pleasant fellow.  don't know how it is now, but back then there was an incredible wait time.  DP kits will be compatible with everything the standard cocker is.  if you want something that (i think) might hold it's resale value a little higher, i'd say go with the DP.  plus, you won't run into any compatibility issues.

[abun]

Ok, made up my mind, and I got a frend also say go for DP.
and as you said, its more compatible with other cocker parts..
and resale value is slightly higher.. (im planning to keep it..)

im building a mech one... but the body dont have an internal parts yet.
any sugestion? I prefer reliablity, and hopefully it wont eat my cocker body..lol

thanks bro.

[HOLLYW00D]

you'll be happy with the DP, no doubt.

as for your mech internals, i'm partial to AKA products.  if it were me, i'd see about getting an AKA Tornado valve.  you can find madman spring kits on ebay for a good price ($10).  the hammer, well, if you don't want your body to be eaten stay away from titanium (from what i hear anyway).

good luck!

[abun]

dear hollywood,
i saw your newly posted pics of your zforce with the 6" barrel i think.
omg i tell you that looks damn nice!  (it lets me having second tots regarding my cocker project)

an update, i got the black dp procut body already..
plus AKA 2 liter, Palmer micro rock, Dye hinge double frame
and still looking for some other parts..

but looking back at your zforce, issit possible to
flip the 15" asa backwards? like the karni?
i still felt optimist towards the zforce..
hmm.. im confused.

[abun]

Sorry.. i snatch your photo
here is some touchup pics taken from your z-force
showing different angle placement of ASA.
IMO the original looks the best, but personally i perfer vert.
(i really wish they had vertical one ... )

original (own by Hollywood)


15 reverse asa


vert. asa